Introduction and reverb/leslie order

[denny@cd.com (Dennis Cronin)]

Big wood box lovers,

My introduction: I have a Quadraverb and a D50 that I suffer
along with.  I am a big fan of the real thing, but don't really
have room in my small studio area for the big wood boxes.  Plus
keeping the stuff running... sheesh.  I've teched before so I know :)

I'd like to bump into an old Korg CX3 and then I think I'd be sorta
happy.  Course I couldn't play my guitar thru the Leslie still.
Hmmm.... I guess I'll never be happy.

Favorite old Hammond bit: Hush by Deep Purple-- a benchmark of B3
performance!  Not a big fan of that band overall, but that tune
smokes.  Also check out old CSNY and Steve Stills for nice
Hammond/Leslie in a supporting role.  And "Rainy Day, Dream Away"
on Lady Land-- who was the dude there, was that Winwood?  And
speaking of Winwood, "Gimme Some Lovin" is pretty hard to argue
with.

Favorite old Leslie guitar bits: Joe Walsh used Leslies on guitar
to great effect on the Barnstorm records.  Tom Scholz also did a
nice job of "borrowing" from Walsh on "More than a Feeling".


Now a reponse to the Leslie/reverb order:

> 
>     Mark>     Also, I have heard that adding reverb/delay or other
>     Mark> effects *before* the Leslie is kind of futile because the
>     Mark> Leslie effect is detracted from by the upstream reverb while
>     Mark> at the same time the Leslie masks the reverb effect.  Anyone
>     Mark> care to comment?
> 
> Well, if we assume for the argument's sake that the Leslie is a linear
> system the reverb is a linear system (else get a new reverb) and that
> neither the speakers nor the amplifier distorts then I claim that for
> the mic'd case it won't matter whether the effects are applied pre
> Leslie or post mic'ing. Both 'verb and the Leslie can be modelled as
> two-dimensional FIR filters and thus where the effects are added in
> the chain makes no difference.
> 
It will probably sound quite different depending on order.  In the
instant, the Leslie might be viewed as an FIR filter, BUT those filter
params are constantly changing due to the whirling thingamies.

Imagine instead of a Leslie an effect which undulates the level of
a signal (e.g. tremelo).  Since this is simply a variable gain stage,
it is still a linear system.

If you put the tremolo first, the reverb still decays smoothly and
tends to soften the tremelo.

Place the tremelo after the reverb and now the reverb trail varies
in volume.  Clearly a much different sound.

I've played w/ this stuff a bunch in the ol' home studio and to
my ear chorus/leslie effects sound much different depending on
whether they're applied before or after reverb.

> But - the Leslie is a non-linear system. Both drivers and amplifier
> are non-linear. If the distortion in a particular case was significant
> it could change the characteristic of the pre-Leslie-effected case due
> to distortion.

This is true.  Amplifier distortion sounds much nicer thru reverb
rather than vice versa IMHO.

See ya,

Denny


------------------------------------+------------------------------------------
       Denny Cronin                 | "Beware of bugs in the above code;
 Central Data Corporation           | I have only proved it correct, not
  Champaign, IL   217-359-8010      | tried it."
      dennyc@cd.com                 |         -- Donald Knuth